Story: "New York's highest court ruled Thursday that gay marriage is not allowed under state law.
The Court of Appeals in a 4-2 decision rejected arguments from gay and lesbian plaintiffs throughout the state that their inability to get marriage licences in New York violated their constitutional rights.
Judge Robert Smith said New York's marriage law clearly limits marriage to between a man and a woman and any change in the law should come from the state Legislature."
Bravo. Finally, a court that defers to the legislature on an issue, rather then taking an active role in creating law.
And an excellent decsion on the gay marriage issue.
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That is positive.
Indeed, espessially as it comes from such a liberal state.
HOOAH!!!
So much for your conservative "family values" -- what is wrong with two people starting a family together? regardless of their sex.
Why do you care so much? It doesn't have an affect on your life?
That my freind is where you are mistaken.
Allowing two people of the same gender to wed will indeed affect us.
And I don't even have to get into the moral side of it.
Since the beginning,
THe Family has been the core of our society.
The family is were children learn right from wrong, manners, and other things.
The families, being the basic social units,
came together and created churches,
around whch was formed towns,
Basic government,
which in turn created the indiviual colonies.
Becasue the families taught their childeren values,
they knew that the oppression from Great Britian wasn't right.
Because of what they learned in their families,
young men were willing to give their lives for sometihng they realized was bigger than them selves.
They gave their lives for their families.
Since then,
Our way of thinking has changed.
It is now common beleif that the government,
not the family,
is responsible for teaching the children.
Hence the rise of the public school system.
This was the first assualt on the family unit,
the basic unit of society.
Now it was up to the government to teach the children what is right and wrong.
The government,
Doing what it was designed to do,
Only cared that the children obeyed the laws.
This brought about the corruption of morals and and the beginning of the degridation of society.
Gay marrage is a continuation of this.
By altering the family unit further,
You take an enormous risk of taking something that did work,
(And produced many great leaders such as Washington and Lincon)
that was changed,
And alters it further.
In my onpinion,
Thats just asking for more trouble.
To sum all that up...
Allowing gay marrige significantly alters family life.
Which will in turn significantly alter our society within 15-20 years.
Jason,
that was about 4 times more eloquent then I would have been.
Why, Thank you.
I guess all that Impropdue S&D and Ta have paid off.
Haha, it sure does.
Hey Annon, as for my conservative family values: They're meant to be understood as a traditional nuclear family values.
Even I'm confused there,
Was that a joke,
Or was that supposed to mean something?
why do you hate gay people?
why do you care if 2 men love each other and want to live together? They do it, you know? regardless of what hte law says...men love each other, live together and care for each other. it is happening right now, every day, across this country. Why do you not feel that two people committing to each other is good for our nation?
you just hate gay people. that's the only answer.
The fack that it happens doesn't make it right.
But that gets into a moral argument.
I get my morals from the bible,
We've seen you don't,
So I'm not going to bother trying to convince you.
As for we we don't want it,
I've shown you,
And It seems you have no response.
What? all i see is young closed minded people who hide behind the Bible as a basis for their hatred and homophobia. In reality, if you stop and consider the benefit that strong family relationships provide for our citizens, you would agree that a family can be two men, or two women.
But instead you say - its wrong, its immoral, its corrupting our culture. in reality, it is about forwarding loving relationships and promoting monogomy and family lifestyles.
You are afraid of them for some reason, and I just don't understand it.
Ok,
You seem to have missed my point.
The Family unit is comprised of a man, a woman, and their children.
Anything other than that is tampering with the most basic unit of society.
Your argument makes sence,
If you describe a family as a group of people who are very close emotionaly.
But that's not what we're talking about.
We're talking about the family unit, as I defined above.
I have know problem with people getting together.
It's called freedom of assembly.
But that's not what we're talking about here.
You're almost right.
I'm not afraid of them,
I'm afraid of the effects they will have on our culture and society in the future.
And FYI,
Marrage came about because of christianity,
So I wouldn't call protecting it with the Bible hiding behind the Bible.
i guess you were lucky enough to havea traditional family, but that's not true of everyone....it doesn't mean they're any less ofa"family" just because its 2 men or a single parent andchildren....
your missing the point.
Two people of the same gender don't make a family.
It's not just traditional,
It's biblical too.
And if you think I was "lucky" to have a traditional family,
Why do you want to make it easier to have a child grow up with anything else?
And no one ever said anything about single parents,
(unless I missed something)
That's an entirly different situation.
One which I'd be more than happy to discuss though
No...actually, its not any different. If there are two adults raising a child in a loving and supportive environment, that is as much a "family" as anything else. Family is about a lot more than blood relations...it is about support and caring for and loving and providing for....there are thousands of gay couples in this country that do those things every single day.
Biblical times were thousands and thousands of years ago...people change, societies change, and you need to account for that. I highly doubt that Jesus ever would have hated gay men who wanted to love each other.
ok...
I can't see how you can say that two of an opposite gender is no different than two of the same gender.
last a check, opposite is no were near the same.
Once again,
You going back to the definition of family as close emotional ties.
We're talking about the family unit,
As I defined above.
You're right that it's more than blood relatives,
There does need to be support, caring and everything else you mentioned.
Otherwise adoption wouldn't work in the first place.
But there also needs to be a mother and a father,
completing the family unit.
Children need both genders to learn from in the family.
I learned to be a man from my father.
I learned what to look for in a wife from my mother.
I needed to have both genders.
Just cause the are already gay couples that can provide caring and support doesn't mean they can provide the proper enviorment to raise a child.
They lack the second gender influence that is required.
you contradict yourself with your second arguement.
If all that stuff really changes,
How does the way Jesus will feel make a difference.
You're half right and half wrong.
I will admit people change,
but that has little influence for your argument since it is short term compared to history.
As for society changing,
Your thinking of culture.
Society is the way people act,
Such as there will be some form of government,
They will will manage their resources,
And try to better themselves.
Culture is how they do this.
Be it through agriculture or industry,
How they will govern themselves,
The arts,
And so on.
This does change over time.
But not in the manner in which you suggest.
If it did, homosexuality would already be culturly acceptable somewhere in the world, some time in history.
But its not.
Thereby negating that part off your argument.
As for you comment on what Jesus would think,
I wonder what you would have to base that on?
Once again,
you're only half right.
Jesus said we shoul hate the sin and love the sinner.
And 1 Tim 1:9 identifies homosexuality as a sin.
so,
you're right that Jesus wouldn't hate gay people,
But he wouldn't allow them to continue living like that.
Now...
I don't want to hear you complaining that the Bible isn't true,
or that only parts of it are,
or that I'm just "Hiding" behind mky Bible.
Becasue you brought it up.
In closeing,
I'd like to point out that while I've addressed every single one of your points,
You have yet to counter any of mine
(Or anyone else's for that matter).
All you do is bring up other points, new or old.
Therefore,
I will assume one of the following must be true.
1. You really don't care.
2. You're just trying to stire up trouble by bringing up what you know is a controversial topic that you know we'll adimently defend our position on.
Or...
3. All of the above.
I'm currently leaning towards 3.
Prove me wrong by countering my points with logic and evidence.
Then I'll know that you actually care AND you're not just trying to cause trouble.
No, actually, i don't find any basis in the points you make -- you simply argue that you are right because the Bible says so. I'm saying that I look around in the world and see families of many different makeups, including two fathers raising a son, or two mothers raising a daughter, and i see these children turn into successful adults. who are less hateful than you are.
You are afraid of something that is different than you. It is frustrating to witness such hateful closed minded youth.
I knew this was going to happen,
Your Biible argument doesn't hold because my last post was the first one that used the Bible,
And the was only because you tried to use.
Your makeing two assumptions there,
That I hate and am afraid of Gays.
I'm pretty sure I've already said that isn't true.
If you wanna claim to know me better than I know myself,
Be my guest.
But I'd like to see some evidence behind those claims,
Like a quote of something I've said previously or agreed with.
If you can't do that,
your just speculating.
well, the entire argument that you find them less deserving of basic rights of personal choice and liberty than those married couples. and that you feel they are sinners because they love each other. that sounds pretty hateful and afraid to me.
What I'm hearing is the product of an Angry losing whiner.
Thank you Jason for holding down the fort in my absence. I second your posts.
what happens when one of your friends tells you they are gay? or if a brother, or cousin? you would deprive them of basic rights of association simply because they love another man?
that, in a country based on personal liberties and freedom, strikes me as very hateful.
Once again,
you're changing the argument.
YOu startede this discussion on the legal side.
Now your moving to the personal and moral side.
I was trying to avoid that becasue we get our morals from different locations.
Pick an argument and stick to it.
As for your claim that none of my points had any basis,
That's a very broad claim.
If that's really the case,
Let see you counter them.
You can do what I did and go down the list of posts,
and address them one at a time.
unless you really don't care,
Which would prove my previous point.
Thereby negating all of yours,
(Ah, the paradox...)
Earth...i'm not arguing any of these points...I am describing my opinion of you and your statements and your beliefs.
They appear and are presented in a very hateful homophobic manner. You say you are a Christian, but you do not love your neighbor. you are therefore, hypocritical.
I find it very strange that a person who is SUPPOSED TO BE a soldier protecting this nation holds such disdain for an entire class of people simply because they like men instead of women, or women instead of men.
I'm not arguing anything...i'm stating my opinion of you as a person. closed minded, and hateful.
FIrst of all,
Please pardon my absence over the past few days,
I managed to get out of here for the weekend.
And my Chemistry CLass has kept my since then.
As for the "Discussion",
Have several points to bring out.
First,
I now have hard evidence that you are trying to put words in my mouth.
You said (When reffering to me), "You say you are a Christian,".
I have not professed my christianity on this website or any other.
Prove me wrong there.
You assume that just because I beleive homosexuality is wrong that I hate gays.
I will admit that I am human and that I have trouble sperating the individuals from thier actions, but you can't say that you don't do that.
(If you say you don't hate Osama Bin Laden for what he did to us then you're lying).
You can't say, "I'm not arguing anything",
Because you are,
If you don't think everything you've said since your first comment on this post is argueing,
Than may I ask you,
What is?
And if you think I'm close minded,
I could easily say the same thing about you because of you opinion on the Bible.
It is very apparent that you have nothing to back up you opinion.
I say this because you have shifted a completely logical discussion about the long term affects of homosexuality to a personal attack on me.
This usually happens in a debate when the other party knows they've been beaten.
(Just FYI)
And in rsponse to your attack on my character,
I did not join the military for the soul purpose of protecting the United States of America.
I joined to protect my morals and values.
My oath says that I am to protect the "Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic."
I took that oath becaus ethe constitution reprsents my morals and values.
While it may not address homosexuality specifically,
I do not beleive that it falls in line with what the founding fathers had in mind when they created this great country.
And oh by the way...
There's a big difference between liking,
and engaging in intercourse.
you are closed minded, hateful, and amazingly afraid of the gay movement.
its sad really. i'm slightly embarrassed that someone like you is supposedly "defending" this country. a country based on freedom - you who would limit those freedoms to those that think just like you.
I fight to protect right from wrong.
I fight so that you have the right to trial by a jury of peers,
So that you don't have to stay awake at night worring about you and your family's saftey,
So that you can live in a free country where those how do right are allowed to continue to do so,
And were those who do wrong are punished for it.
I beleive gay marrage is wrong,
just like murdering and stealing.
I f you think gay marrage is acceptable,
Than what is wrong with the other two?
And once again,
You have provided 0 facts.
Only statments you cannot back up.
And by completly ignoreing what I've pointed out in my comment from 19-JUL,
You have shown that you have nothing to back up any of your points.
You once again have fallen back to the attack on my character,
Showing you have nothing to back up you points.
Ok, I wasn't going to get in on this, but I can't hold back any more. Anon, you said in your blog that, "what happens when one of your friends tells you they are gay? or if a brother, or cousin?" I personally know what this feels like. I have two cousins that are very blatently homosexual.
With this I will describe the life style that my cousin has taken.
1. Lied and pretended that he cared about family and others, even though he broke his mother's heart more than once with his decisions.
2. Cheated on his wife numerous times with other men, on a weekly, sometimes daily basis for eight years.
3. After his wife divorced him he regularly leaves his 12 year old son at a gas station with a phone to call his mom, so that my cousin can go have his "lover's" tryst with his gay lover.
And this was a "Christian" Homosexual, (or bisexual if you want to include the times that he had sex with his wife.)
This is not a "normal" life, or even one that condone's family values. His example to his son has been nothing but deceit and lies since he was born.
Finally, and I will get off of the subject of my cousin, he introduced his younger brother, (10 years old at the time,) to a gay group that proceeded to forcibly sodomize him. From that time on he has been scarred permanently and has struggled with living a normal life since. (He works in a bar and is a recovering alcoholic.)
Now I know you are going to say that I hate my cousin. You are going to say that I am angry at him, and that I will not ever forgive him. That could not be farther from the truth. I love my cousin dearly, and have forgiven him years ago. But at the same time I cannot condone or support his actions or allow him to be near my younger brothers of which I have three. They are too impressionable, and seeing what he did to his younger brother, I could never forgive myself should he do that again.
I am no more afraid of gays than I am afraid of my cousin, but I will not sit back and listen to an argument where the side favoring gays has provided no evidence, whether life experience or solid material, to support their claim. It is no way to carry out an argument.
Again, have you ever thought that it is you, not Earth that might be wrong? I know that the idea is revolting to your feeble mind, and that you are like, "who is this idiot?", but you cannot deny the fact that you have never once assumed that you might not be as right as you say you are, and you say that Earth is close minded! Wow! Earth has, as far as I can read, not attacked you as a person or made any judgements about your character that were not warranted. Earth might have something against it, but I do not have anything against attacking your personally. You are a coward that hides behind an anonymous name, that attacks other people based on their beliefs, and that cannot take it when your arguments are not accepted as the way that this Nation should be run.
And that brings me to another topic that is bugging me. You said that Earth is hateful, close minded, a youth, a bad soldier, and even stated in your last comment that, "I'm not arguing anything...i'm stating my opinion of you as a person. closed minded, and hateful." You personally do not know him any better than I do. For all I know he could be a person trying to do a good deed, or a terrorist wondering what the condition of people in the United States is on this subject. You just personally stated that you weren't arguing, just stating an opinion of another person's character. Before you can state something about a person you must know them and not just "know" as in think you know, actually meet them. No person deserves to be harassed in such a manner. You joined this blog, so have some respect for the person hosting it.
And BTW, like it or not, Earth by being in the military is protecting your right to express your views that you have been putting so freely on this site, with his life if his country so dictates, that in itself earns him respect more than anything else. The fact that he would be willing to give his life for your freedoms, and that you treat him as such, makes you very "close-minded" yourself. Did this fact ever cross your mind? At all?
Sorry for the second post, the e-mail I just gave is no longer in service. Here is the new one.
LegionOfJustice@gmail.com
Well Angel - how sad for your cousin and his entire family. If gay men were more accepted in our country and community he would never have been forced to hide from his true feelings and beliefs and likely wouldn't have hurt those around him.
And Earth - the only thing I'm certain of, and willing to back up, is your very clear fear and hatred of gay men and women.
I believe in a government that takes care of all its citizens and doesn't discriminate based on who one person chooses to love.
I'm not sure what "point" you're trying to make, exactly? My point is that you are hateful and homophobic and you hide behind the Bible. that's all you've said here.
Go ahead and attack me for it...but then you better pray for yourself to learn to find a little more compassion.
You say that "If gay men were more accepted in our country and community he would never have been forced to hide from his true feelings and beliefs and likely wouldn't have hurt those around him." I personally know this to not be true. Not once was my cousin turned out for being homosexual, not once was he told that he was not loved because he wasn't living as a "straight" person. He chose to hurt those he "loved", not because he wasn't accepted, but because it is a perversion of the mind and the body.
Homosexuality is definied by webster's dictionary as having a sexual desire towards a person of the same sex.
In both of the definitions given there is nothing stating that love has anything to do with it.
If love has nothing to do with it, then what does? It is based purely and despicably on sexual desire. To get to the point, to be homosexual is to give in to one's sexual appetites, merely giving over to that which would make a human no better than an animal. The thing that differentiates a human from an animal is that the human has the ability to control his passions and his desires when they are morally wrong.
Now about Earth hating gays, not once has he stated that he hates gays. (I am assuming that he is a he.) He has stated that he doesn't agree with their choices in who they chase to sleep with, but he has not stated anything about hating them as a person or as a people group. How you are saying that he hates gays is a mystery to me. He has not been aggressive against them at all, only against their corrupt lifestyle. As for hiding behind the Bible, I am not so sure about that. How is bringing the Bible into a topic that you brought Jesus into hiding behind the Bible? Is it possible that instead of his hiding behind the Bible that you are hiding from it? It is a credited Christian work. I also find it interesting that it is only the Bible that you are attacking. The Quran has clear teaching about being homosexual, as does the book of Mormon, and even the Jews do not accept it as a legitimate form of "love" as you have put it, having it forbidden in their Torah. So why does it have to be the Bible?
And as for compassion, the compassion that I have for someone that has no compassion for others is small indeed. You have done nothing but assume your correctness in this matter since you brought yourself into this blog. My compassion for that type of arrogance is poor seated at best.
best regards, nice info »
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